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Real-time social wars: where's the money?

So, I've been studying Facebook, FriendFeed, Twitter, and Google's Wave and other things for some time.

Last week I also visited Yelp, which is growing at a million new users PER MONTH.

Twitter is growing at about 4 times that rate. Facebook is growing about 2x that rate.

So, these are the big players. It's clear that they are getting massive adoption. I don't see that slowing down or stopping for any of these players.

But where's the money? To figure that out you've got to see where they are coming from. What is their usage model?

Facebook's? They built the rolodex of the web. They have the white pages. Sorry, Yahoo, you are toast there. TechCrunch reports that Yahoo wants to be the place people go for social search. That's done. Facebook is it. Strength? They are the white pages. Weakness? Not much interaction with brands and businesses.

Google's? That's where you go to search for most things. Especially businesses. Looking for Sushi in Palo Alto? You go to Google. I also go there to find people's emails, blogs, and Twitter accounts, but they don't have that locked up. Facebook, for most people, does a better job of finding blogs, emails, and phone numbers. Strength? Mobile integration thanks to iPhone. Breadth of usage, thanks to all the dozens of things Google does, from Picasa to Google Maps. Business listing and location is best of breed, but... Weakness? Google doesn't get social software. It just doesn't know what to do to make a Twitter. They bought Dodgeball and Jaiku and then squandered those purchases. The founders aren't really very social people and the culture there is very engineering focused, but not very human focused. Will they overcome that? My bet is no, but they will keep trying.

Twitter's? They understand how to get people to participate in public, which makes search possible. Plus simplicity and openness of their APIs make brands and celebrities hot and bothered (they tell me that Facebook and Google are too complicated to use in comparison). Strength? Publicness and engagement of both developers and celebrities and brands. Weakness? They don't have a good list of businesses like Google does and they don't have a lot of hooks that keep users engaged like Facebook does. They don't iterate fast enough to take advantage of new learning and they are -- so far -- squandering their lead in real time search (it has actually gotten worse over the past year instead of better). New APIs like retweeting and location have been announced, but not really baked into the service yet.

Yelp's? In cities where Yelp is getting adoption, they've found the best business integration of all of these and businesses are now paying to "offer" their users things to get new customers into the door. This is where the real money is and over the next year you'll see Facebook and Google figure this out. Strength? Best of breed business recommendations and best mobile experience for finding local businesses. Weakness? They don't have the general engagement that Facebook and Twitter have. Also, Yelp is only strong in a few cities and is in the midst of a landgrab that could be stunted if Facebook or Google ship a local business service soon.

So, where's the money?

Twitter seems to have moved away from the idea of competing directly with Facebook and Google over a business listing service. That's a shame, because Twitter has the potential to be a powerful business interaction service. We were just in a sushi restaurant in Boulder, CO, which is already using Twitter in an interesting way (we'll have a video about that up in the next week or so) but will you search for sushi in Boulder like this on Twitter? No. You might praise or complain about the restaurant on Twitter, though, and Twitter is moving to charging businesses for more features like group management tools (at Rackspace we use TweetRiver, other businesses use CoTweet, but I can imagine a world where Twitter does these features themselves, or acquires one of these companies and charges for extra features like these) or tools that give more insights into what's happening in the marketplace. Or, look at services like TweetMeme that are tracking retweeting behavior. That will provide an early warning system into Twitter for many businesses in the future.

I think Twitter is going to miss the real money, though. The real money is going to come out of those business listings. Yelp has it figured out. Facebook is stuck inside its walled garden and is doing everything possible to figure out how to become more public, so it can turn on search features. Even today Facebook hired "Mr. Open" David Recordon. If I were Mark Zuckerberg I would rebrand the public part of Facebook as "Facebook Public" and make it very cool to publish there. For the past few days I've been using the not-released-yet Facebook 3.0 iPhone app. You can see this "publicness" all over the place. Zuckerberg understands why Twitter got businesses hot and bothered and is doing everything possible to get his 300 million users there before Twitter figures out it needs to do a business listing and search service.

How will Facebook collect the cash? Well, go to Google and let's do that sushi search for Boulder, Colorado again. Did you see how that list works? Facebook needs that list. Twitter isn't even close. But what's missing? PEOPLE! Imagine if this list, when it's brought to you by Facebook, shows that #1 has been liked by 14 of your friends? Businesses get that for free. But what don't they get for free?

Yelp's "offers." Businesses PAY to "offer" things to customers to try to move up the list.

So, if you're the #3 business on the list, you might say "bring your iPhone in and you'll get free beer." Doing that will cost you money, both in the free beer and the advertising you'll pay Facebook or Google or Yelp to try to move up the list.

Google has the list. It doesn't have the humans or the offers. Yelp has the offers but doesn't have hundreds of millions of people. Facebook has hundreds of millions of people and the "like" system, but not the offers.

So, who will get there first? Now you understand the battlefield. Who will win the war?

My bet is on Facebook. Why? Well, they just hired the guy who built Gmail and the monetization system at Google.

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Comments (29)

Aug 24, 2009
James Stratford said...
The players in this are real and all with potential. Yahoo has certainly lost it at this point and either has to find a minor piece to salvage/recreate the identity they are striving for or just focus on their merger and improving local search.

MSN has bing with their own local service that offers a nicer listing, but Ironically and this is huge. If you were searching for your company on Bing and you knew you have a local listing on Bing. :) Wouldn't you expect to see at least one link? Unfortunately if you do a search on Bing Erving MA you won't see my company listed (I didn't add and am not plugging it). But seriously it's unreal! So I'd say they aren't a reliable player in local.

The last line of your post astounded me since I wasn't aware that Facebook had hired a former key employee of Google. When you talk about Gmail or the monetization system at Google there's nothing small or insignificant about it. :)

Aug 24, 2009
_JamesStewart said...
Awesome summary of Real Time web future by @robertscoble >>Where you see real time video heading? #hustlefest
Aug 24, 2009
Robert Scoble said...
jstratford: actually when Facebook bought FriendFeed they got the guy who built the Google Talk team, another guy ran the Google Maps team, and yet another guy ran the Google Mail team. Among other super stars.
Aug 24, 2009
Mike Langford said...
If Google doesn't acquire Twitter I think you are right, Facebook is the biggest winner here. For the reasons you've listed above but more importantly because of a little thing called Facebook Connect. The people are able to interact with the online world with this single sign on gem the more cemented Facebook becomes in their lives.

Of course, I'm still betting Twitter is a strong number two especially since I've invested so much in Tweetworks.

Aug 24, 2009
shekyboy said...
BTW, why doesn't FB automatically import the comments from FB on this link back to this blog using FB Connect (they have it the other way)?

Someone at FB should add this to their roadmap.

Aug 24, 2009
Chris Heath said...
i like the idea of Facebook Public, code named FaceFeed?
Aug 24, 2009
Step outside the bubble for a moment... People want to talk to their friends and family, and meet new friends with common interests, they don't seek out new ways to get marketed to. People will tire of the spam and constant marketing on Twitter. Facebook may find a way to make money for a time, but will eventually become the AOL that everyone laughs at, or maybe more like the stagnant Microsoft. Even now, Facebook is the thing that everyone is on, but few really enjoy using. What is the single thing that everyone still has? Email. Yahoo has more users than anyone, Google is coming up fast. For the masses, services that are easy to access with an email account are the most likely to get used. Google and Yahoo may not have the social side down pat, but they are the best hope we have for the continuation of the open web.
Aug 24, 2009
Michael Fidler said...
As one of your regular readers, I’ve enjoyed taking the journey with you up to this point, but it’s clear that you have reached a new level of understanding with regards to the current environment. Congratulations; this is one of your clearest posts I’ve read in a while. You’re right on the money this time and it shows! I do have a couple of questions though. Assuming you're right, both of my questions are regarding what comes next. Is there a possible play here for Microsoft? I’m thinking along the lines of an acquisition/merger perhaps? Secondly, what roll if any does Social-TV play in Facebook’s future?
Aug 24, 2009
wattersjames said...
Robert--nailed it. A great review of the real value of the behaviors people have on these services, and what they are really worth long term.

"I think Twitter is going to miss the real money, though. The real money is going to come out of those business listings. Yelp has it figured out. Facebook is stuck inside its walled garden and is doing everything possible to figure out how to become more public, so it can turn on search features."

One night people were commenting about thought-leadership on FF, this is community monetization and strategy thought leadership.

Aug 24, 2009
Jon Mulholland said...
That's a great summary of the real time web Robert, one of the clearest bits of insight I've seen for a while. Thanks!

I never could understand why Yahoo! failed to see or failed to leverage its potential as a social search provider. A couple of years ago I was talking to some exec friends at Yahoo! and asking what they would do to stitch all their social tools together to create recommendation networks across delicious, upcoming, Yahoo Answers etc. They could both see the potential value but told me that Yahoo just wasn't set up to operate in that way. One of the great missed opportunities of this phase of the web I guess. Mind you, as mentioned above, they do still have massive webmail userbase perhaps there is still a something interesting they could build that would appeal to older (richer) web users?

The problem you highlight for Facebook - the need for its users to embrace public openness is an interesting one. Why is it do you think that we've generally got into the habit of keeping Facebook profiles closed? I was taking a good look at mine earlier today; there's nothing on my profile that you couldn't learn about me from my blog, Twitter, Flickr, Foursquare or other social network account, all of which are publicly open, and yet I leave my Facebook locked down, visible only to those I've connected with IRL. It's an odd behaviour really, but its obvious I'm not the only user doing this. Any thoughts?

Aug 24, 2009
ekolsky said...
The misconception that Google, Facebook, or just about anyone else can get there by acquisitions is ridiculous. There has been virtually zero acquisitions that have been able to complete integration on time and with good results to leverage what people though was possible. The acquisition acts more like a competitor-killer (FriendFeed) or a secondary business that is not well understood (skype by ebay).

Robert, good analysis - I like the way you presented and I am also inclined to think that Facebook is going to win the war. The issue of opennes is not as severe as what others must face -- and they already have 300 million people (approx the number of ppl living in the USA). That is an unsurmountable barrier at this entry for anyone wanting to entrech themselves in the market. Unless they buy facebook for their users - but why would they sell - no one has a chance to rack up the users and deliver value to them as facebook does.

Thanks for an interesting read...

Aug 25, 2009
 said...
I liked the break down of the way people react on social networks.

I hope Twitter gets it and I am still not a really active member on yelp but I have done with with them and have participated in some of the things they have offered.

Monetization is going to be a challenge especially when you start with a free model.

Aug 25, 2009
Ahad Bokhari said...
Excellent article Robert, end of the day bottom line is the $$'s and Facebook have certainly understands this arena much better than twitter..Liked how they scooped up super-stars from competitors...

Thanks for the info and insight!!

Aug 25, 2009
Todd Leiser said...
Thank you Robert. Wonderful breakdown.

The challenge is the adoption of those (mostly small & local) businesses to take advantage of the platform to "offer" incentives to NEW customers. Most don't want to continuously offer discounts to existing customers. I'm certain one of these players will figure out the technology - but the real opportunity lies in the local implementation.

This war requires some degree of ground troops.

Aug 25, 2009
Junal Rahman said...
Scoble, great post...and very needy information from real time web. btw, why don't you talk about building43? whats going on about that and i saw your hype before you launching building43....
Aug 25, 2009
VictusFate said...
Great work and writeup Robert. I still see some space for relevance matching in a pseudo automated fashion (semantic tools) and user profiles. Have you considered there is no monetization path forward?

I believe business ego is getting in the way of user value. Why aren't Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, and yelp combining their resources and unique talents to build a better user experience. Owning user value all in one brand is infantile. They could all make more profits by providing greater services, support, and value by leverging their expertise collavoratively. Is this concept too communal?

Aug 25, 2009
Thanks for the Yelp update. I have been wondering about them but now I will give them a second look. I agree with you that Facebook has the big Mo and the talent but don't discount the GOOG. She is still the Queen of LeapFrog and when her Moon Shot contest takes over News Reporting, she will be the dominatrix of social media monetization. You can quote me on that.
Aug 25, 2009
Zavee said...
Great post. Yelp has cool search+social consumer model but not sure it has nailed its relationships with merchants.
Aug 25, 2009
gilbertogalea said...
To me, facebook and twitter show us the path that other social networks need to cross, if they want to be competitive.
Great post, thanks by share!
Aug 25, 2009
For Google, there is money because they are able to provide better search results based on information on current trends. With better results, more users and therefore cash.

http://weblog.thomasrstegelmann.com/why-google-wanted-to-acquire-twitter

Aug 25, 2009
kilted_andrew said...
What has been interesting to see in Los Angeles over the last few months is the number of small businesses sporting "Yelp Loves My Business" stickers on their front door - often on businesses that have no websites themselves. Yelp is a very visible and understandable concept to the small business owner - wonder what a Google / Yelp play would look like?
Aug 25, 2009
@andrew: Thus, Google is increasing their focus on local search, which is even more promising.
Aug 25, 2009
 said...
Great analysis of the players' strengths, weaknesses, and paths to revenue (btw, if you replace every reference to Google in this article with Google*Maps or Google*Mobile, it will make more sense). However, you're making some mixed fruit salad because you're not comparing apples to apples in this post.

I agree that Yelp has the best proposition to businesses, and particularly small businesses. But Yelp requires that there is a physical location for the business in order for their platform to make sense. However, I think Yelp has the biggest total addressable market because there are always going to be more SMBs, and they all want to get low-cost word-of-mouth marketing. Google will likely never be able to provide that exposure to SMBs; FB may not want to.

Facebook does not require that businesses have physical locations ... instead, it offers propositions for products and brands. Therefore, they can hit business segments at both the very big and very small ends of the market. And, as long as they have *people* in there, they can always pay their bills with ads. Agreed that the SMB value prop is something they should focus on.

Everyone knows that Google doesn't get social ... it's patently obvious. My question is: do they care? I don't think Google's business is about "owning" content ... it's about aggregating content, managing data, and providing advertising infrastructure. Do you really think the incremental bump in revenue that Google "owning" the social context would provide to the algorithm is going to make that much difference at their scale? Of course, i reread that last sentence and am realizing that there is an innovator's dilemma in there.

Twitter .... what to say? I don't get it. Their value prop is for rockstars (who don't pay) and for brands who want to seem hip and and on the cutting edge (who don't need to pay since Twitter has given away all their value to the ecosystem of 3rd party apps). Really, I'm not just being snarky. I don't get it.

Aug 26, 2009
Rafael Montilla said...
Facebook is the KING, in Latin America Hi5 is very strong more than Twitter.
Aug 27, 2009
johnr99a said...
Nice "explainer" Scoble. @jayrosen_nyu would approve!
Aug 30, 2009
David Sanger said...
"Twitter figures out it needs to do a business listing and search service"

They could really easily leverage their userbase by allowing users to add tags to their profile and providing advance profile search by location, tag, domain, date etc.

Right now their "find people" is underfunctional.

Aug 30, 2009
I agree with David. Currently, every tweet older than five minutes is lost. 
Aug 30, 2009
Lee Sachs said...
really summed it up nicely. even if one were to read it as if you've got a bias to FB (which i'm not saying you do), the arguments and the logic are solid.
Sep 12, 2009
Jon Mulholland said...
This is the post on the Real Time Web by @scobleizer I was raving about yesterday. It's a very, very good read:

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